Providing Affordable Housing while Building Wealth with Kristy Moore

Nate Trunfio: Welcome to another episode of The Real Estate of Things. I'm Nate Trunfio with Lima One Capital. Today we are going to go through an amazing journey with Ms. Kristy Moore as she explains how she's transitioned over the last one or two decades of being a single- family investor, a realty brokerage owner, and now a multifamily investor. There is a lot of phenomenal stories and takeaways to hear, as well as all of the adversity that she's had to overcome, which we need to expect in the real estate investing world. So let's dive in now to get to know Kristy and her journey to get to the success that she's had. Welcome Kristy Moore from BABS Development. I am excited to talk about a lot of things real estate investing. One thing that I know most about you is you got a very interesting road to where you're at here. So I want to just kick this off real quick with, is it easy to predict the road of growth and scale and progress and success in real estate investing? You have to answer that one first.

Kristy Moore: I mean, absolutely not. I think we all think we have that superpower, but we don't. I mean, I don't know about you, but none of my plans have ever gone according to plan. Even when we've done a great job, I mean, life... I always say that the market doesn't care about what's going on in your life, and your life doesn't care about what's going on in the market, and that's just what happens. I mean, life happens, things happen, and you can't predict a lot of the stuff that you go through in life that affect your business.

Nate Trunfio: Well, amen to that, and I'm excited, because you bring up superpowers, which I want to talk about, because I know you have many of them. But as you listen to this, Kristy is not only a phenomenal operator, but one that just continues to persevere through a windy road in real estate investing, and I'm excited for everybody to learn a little bit about that. Because I've had the pleasure to get to know Kristy over probably the last five years, and just excited to share. But you got to tell us... You could probably take up the whole episode on the windy road you've taken in all the real estate investing experience you have. But just give us any realm of the summary that you want to share, because it's certainly an interesting one.

Kristy Moore: Well, I mean, I've been in real estate a really long time. I started in the mortgage business. I worked at Quicken Loans in 2003, is, I guess when my start in the real estate industry. And then I became a real estate agent and a broker, and I invested in the market crash, actually, in 2008. 2009 is when I started flipping houses. And I always had the theory of energy when it comes to money. It's like, it's never created nor destroyed. It just transfers from one form to another. So instead of seeing the market meltdown as money being destroyed, I saw it as just being transferred. So I bought up a lot of really disgusting properties. I literally had no money to my name, I had nothing, and convinced some guy with $10 million to lend me money. So we started fixing up houses, and I was doing really well doing that, but I was working with my ex- husband. He is an ex- husband, and I decided, this is going to destroy our relationship if we continue working together. So I actually got off of the real estate investment train and went into doing retail so that I could just be on my own. And then I built a big real estate team with Keller Williams and started dabbling back in investing after I got divorced, and realized" This is what I want to do, this is why I got into the business. I want to continue doing this." And that's 2015, when I bought my first commercial property. I actually bought an office building that we operated out of, and then it was four years later that I ended up going from owning single- family, flipping houses, rentals, things like that, to buying my first multifamily property, which was a whole other adventure I'm sure we'll get into. And that was actually a number of things that had me decide to do that. Number one, I got creamed in taxes.

Nate Trunfio: For good reason, though, right?

Kristy Moore: Well, yeah, but my accountant was like, " Well, the good news is you did really well. The bad news is you owe half your money to the government." And it was the whole Obamacare tax. I mean, it was just everything. Once you get to a certain level and it's earned income, it's taxed like crazy. So he was the one who was like, " Really, you need to start holding onto some of these properties and doing 1031 exchanges and do a different strategy, or else you're just going to keep working yourself to death and not create any wealth." So I did my first 1031 exchange with my first rental property that I actually held onto during my divorce, and I bought another rental property with that. And then I think I made 110,000 on that, bought another one, made 140. So it was up like 240 after that. And then I took that money and exchanged it with another property into the apartment complex. And the reason I did that was because I had a past client call me. I helped him sell two of his condos here in Fairfax, Virginia. They were 300,000 a piece. He was asking me at the time... $ 300, 000 condo here, you're only getting$ 2, 000 a month in rent. It's not a great return. And at the time he was asking me, " Well, where can I invest to take this money and actually make some money on it? I have all this equity in these condos, I have 300,000 in, and I'm not making any money." And I said to him, just off the cuff, because I just started doing 1031 exchanges, I said, " You really should exchange this into a different area and a different property type where you can actually make some money." And he called me a few years later, this was in 2019, and he said, " Hey, I just wanted to thank you." And I said, " Why?" And he said, " Well, because of you, I'm now worth$ 30 million." And I was like, " Wait, what?" And he said, " I took the money from the condos and I did what you said to do. I invested them into multifamily in lower- priced areas. I turned them around, I made a profit, and then I 1031'd it into another property, into another property, and now I own $ 30 million worth of real estate." And I was like, I" What? I just gave you advice that I'm not even taking. I should start taking my own advice." And he was the one who had me start looking in that Bennettsville, Dillon area, which is where I bought my first property, unbeknownst to me what I was getting into at the time, because he wanted me to look at his properties down there. So I went and just drove around, looked at a couple of his properties, and then I ran into the property that I ended up buying, which was at auction. And it was a total war zone, but that excited me, because I love... The grosser the better, the dirtier, I mean, the more of a disaster. I get excited about that kind of stuff. So I bid on the property at auction and I got it, and that was my first project. It was an 84- unit apartment complex I bought on my own, I had no partners, with 1031 exchange money from other properties I had bought here in Fairfax.

Nate Trunfio: Awesome. Well, it's a long journey and there's a lot to unpack there, which we are about to do. I want to zoom out and ask you a big picture question. I know you to be someone who's an extremely hard worker and perseveres through a lot as well. So the big question is, what's your big... Why do you do what you do, put up with what you put up with, and went through all the ups and downs to continue on. From the highest level possible, what's Kristy's" Why"?

Kristy Moore: Well, it's changed a few times, but I think, in general, I grew up poor. My parents were on welfare and food stamps when I was little. We had cockroaches in our cereal, that kind of stuff. So I've always been rooting for the underdog, wanting to take care of people, and I've been able to make it on my own through my own efforts. I mean, look, I've been evicted from my apartment. I mean, I've searched for coins in my couch to pay for gas. I've had a flat tire I couldn't fix that I drove around on for weeks. I mean, I know what it's like to be broke. And I have always had a soft spot for people that are just trying to make it. And they grew up in whatever environment, and they deserve quality housing, quality living situations, just as much as anybody else. Just because you're poor doesn't mean that you have to live in squalor. It doesn't mean that you have to be treated with disrespect. And especially when I bought Dillon, I mean, it really was an emotional decision because the landlord was your typical slumlord. I mean, he fixed nothing. And these people were living in total squalor. They couldn't afford to live anywhere else. The rent was super cheap. And I figured that I could raise the rent to be affordable, maybe not... I obviously needed the money to be able to fix it up and make it nice, but I felt like I could still keep the rent relatively affordable and get a nice place to live. And then, look, if you're filthy and that's your deal, fine, but it's not going to be my filth that you're going to be living in. I'm going to give you a nice place to live. And my mom and I worked together on that property, and our whole thing was, safe and clean, not pretty and perfect. And the other thing was a lot of the people that need affordable housing are women, and they are single women and they have children. And I actually get goosebumps even talking about this, because we dealt with a lot of women that were fleeing really dangerous situations. They either were homeless or they were trying to get away from an abusive ex. A lot of them had boyfriends, husbands, exes, whatever, that were in jail for doing horrible things. So you can only imagine what they were doing to them. And I have a real soft spot for people that, like I said, are wanting to have a better life. And maybe they can't afford the things that other people can, but we really wanted to give them a great place to live. I mean, even with flipping houses it was always about making things better, making this really ugly house beautiful. I mean, I still to this day just love the transformation. I love seeing this really disgusting, gross house turning into something gorgeous that, again, we can give to people in our area. Affordable is 500, 700,000, but they're also tearing these places down and building McMansions for$ 2 million. Not everybody can afford a$ 2 million house. So I really like the challenge of making things beautiful and nice on a budget, and I also love the experience of giving this thing that I created to somebody else to now have their lives in it, their experience in it. And I mean, sometimes my desire to help underserved communities has challenged me in ways I never thought possible, but I never deviated from that mission of being able to provide quality housing at an affordable price, which, by the way, is getting much, much... It's getting very difficult to do.

Nate Trunfio: Yes.

Kristy Moore: And also just serving, like I said, the people that need it the most. And then there just also happens to be an opportunity there. I mean, if you look at HUD statistics, for every hundred affordable housing units they need, there's only one available or three or whatever. It's some really low number for what is needed versus what is available. So there's obviously a huge opportunity there as well. It's very, very challenging to be able to provide that. But I still, I think, until the day I die, that will constantly be what I want to provide to the world. That's my way of making the world better is...

Nate Trunfio: That's awesome.

Kristy Moore: Making it more beautiful, making it prettier, making it safer, cleaner, whatever. I mean, it's just in my blood. I can't get it out.

Nate Trunfio: Awesome. And as you listen to this, you can hear the passion and the emotion that comes out, and you got a lot of" Why". My summary, from what I can interpret is, it's helping the underdog. It's doing good by the community, and the world for that matter, and making things better, providing, giving back, and then you yourself doing all of that to yourself. And I think as you listen to this, it's just really important that, real estate investing isn't easy. Many of us know that, but if you don't have a bigger picture" Why" to drive you through the adversity and get through these issues, it's really hard to be consistent and successful and to get through it, candidly. Because you really, when times get tough, you have to keep the biggest perspective in your inner reasoning for driving through it in mind. So there's a lot I want to come back to in realms of what you've done in some single- family stuff, and how you've gotten into multifamily. But I want to really exemplify this, because your first multifamily property, I think, is just the perfect example. And there's some pretty cool, interesting, crazy, honestly, stories that I know you can share here. So highlight just briefly what happened there, and then some of the craziness that you had to deal with, which again is just, to me, it's pretty astounding to hear what you went through.

Kristy Moore: How much time do we have? No, I'm just kidding.

Nate Trunfio: Yeah, go where you want with it, because it's inaudible.

Kristy Moore: I'll do the highlights, which, by the way, this is only going to be the tip of the iceberg. Whatever I tell you, there's way more underneath all of this. So I had bought this property at auction. Like I said, I had seen it. I mean, I knew it was a bloodbath. I knew that the physical aspect of the property was a major, major problem. But again, nothing that I didn't think I could fix. At this point, I had flipped lots of houses. I feel like I'm really good at managing crews and keeping things on budget and getting things done on time. Again, I knew that this was a disaster, but I could handle it. Well, when I was running the numbers for the property, for the auction and figuring out what my max price was and all those things, I kept running the numbers and I'm like, " This doesn't make any sense. This is too good of a deal. There's something I can't see. There's something I don't know that's going on." I checked the crime reports. There was no crime in that specific area, which I'll tell you why in a minute. I went four pages back on Google. I'm Googling the name. I'm like, " What is going on here that I can't see? I mean, there's something happening." And I just justified in my brain. I went through all the worst- case scenarios and all of the things that could go wrong that I knew about. Again, what we were talking about in the beginning is all the things that you don't think about is what happens, right? So all the things I'm like, "Even if my budget doubles, it still makes sense. Even if I can't get the rent." I just couldn't figure out what was wrong, but whatever, I'm moving forward. So I bought the house, or the property, at auction. The day I closed on it was probably the worst day of my life. It was Friday the 13th.

Nate Trunfio: Oh, geez.

Kristy Moore: And my mom was rushed to the hospital by ambulance. They couldn't find a pulse. We were on vacation, actually. I had closed remotely. The night after I closed, there was a shooting on the property. And then there was something else, and then I got hit with the lawsuit. So those three things all happened that same day. So I get notice of the lawsuit, Mom gets taken by ambulance.

Nate Trunfio: Congratulations, you bought your first multifamily property.

Kristy Moore: Yeah, I should be celebrating, and I'm in the depths of despair. So that was the first thing that happened, or that was the day that I closed. So I go down right after closing, after we get back from vacation that Monday, to go start the project. So all those things happened in one day, and I went down to the property on the Monday. And my mom was still in the hospital at that time, and I was not functionally... I kind of felt like I was in an alternate universe. I was still dealing with that emotionally. And I go down to the property. The property manager tells me about the shooting and what happened, and it was on the property. And I was like, "Well, I don't understand. I mean, what's going on here? Why is that?" This didn't seem like it was a one-off thing. The property manager seemed like this was kind of like a normal thing, although that was a different story than what they told me when I went to visit the property multiple times to start doing the budgets and that kind of stuff. And that's when I found out about all of the murders on the property. A year prior, somebody had been shot and killed, and it just so happened that it was the girlfriend of the son of the gang leader that ran the property before this property manager, and his mom lived on the property. The gang leader's mom lived on the property, so that means he came to the property often. but also he ran all of his gang activity off... The whole gang operation was that whole community, which was why there was no crime reported because they were paying the cops. I actually had the cops on camera selling assault rifles out of the back of the cop car. And no one would file police reports because they were all on the take. I had it on camera. I mean, I had to call the ATF, like, "What is going on?" The ATF? WTF. And that was just one of the things. And again, I'm just finding this out after I buy the property. So this whole entire gang, again, that mostly occupied the property, because the guy that ran it before was the gang leader, and he was also the property manager before this other lady was hired, who was the current one. And there was a guy working on the property that was a registered sex offender. The gang leader would deal drugs and guns and all kinds of things on the property all the time. Their whole entire ring and operation, like I said, was there. So when we started to evict people, we got a lot of pushback. People didn't like that we were messing around with their whole operation. And then at the same time, COVID hit. So we are now dealing with trying to evict people off of the property during an eviction moratorium. And there was a loophole. I mean, I don't know if you'd call it a loophole given what we were dealing with, but it was for non- payment of rent. We couldn't evict people for non-payment of rent, but these guys were actually paying their rent, but they were paying cash, for obvious reasons. So we wanted to evict them for criminal activity. We had them on camera, we had them on camera breaking into our units. We had them on camera dealing drugs and shooting guns. And they shot out our office windows at night. They were on camera threatening... There were 30 gang members that came onto our property in one of our apartment buildings and threatened, or one of our apartment units, and threatened my mom. Every single one of them had an assault rifle, either an AK- 47 or AR-15, or some type of. 45 or nine millimeter. They were all armed. And they came onto our property and threatened my life. They said that they would leave me on my mom's doorstep. They were going to come and hunt me down and leave me on my mom's doorstep. And this happened on our property. And we went to court, because it's like, our lives are being threatened and you're not allowing us to evict these people. We're not evicting them for nonpayment of rent. This is not a COVID situation. This is a safety situation. And we actually had to take the cops to court. We had to get the feds involved. And like I said, at the same time, our lives were being threatened. And this is on top of my property manager stealing from me, prostituting on the property for coke, and all the other things that were going on around there. We're just trying to fix this place up. We're just trying to make it nice. We're trying to provide good quality housing for people, and we're just being run over by... And these are legit gangs. Actually, them threatening us was good for us, because we had it on camera, and that allowed us to go into higher courts and evict all of the people that were on that video. In the meantime, I'm walking around with 14 different weapons and just trying to deal with that whole trauma of that situation. And then after that, we had a building burn down. We had a 10,000 square foot building burned down. We had 12 buildings. One of the buildings burnt to the ground and we were underinsured, so we lost$ 700,000 overnight, and that was a month after the whole gang situation.

Nate Trunfio: You had a big extensive... I mean, you had to invest a ton of CapEx in the property too. So what was that total budget? Even including the fire damage, which I don't know if you replaced.

Kristy Moore: Actually, when that building burned down, we had just finished our last unit that we renovated, and we had gotten all the people off the property that we tried to get off the property. We had just finished up our renovation of all the units. Literally we were high- fiving like, " Yeah, woo, we're so good. We got it done." And then both my mom and I were like, " God, give us a sign. Should we stay here? Should we continue? Or is it time to sell?" And then that weekend, the building burned down. It's like, God has spoken, right?

Nate Trunfio: So full cycle, you ended up selling the asset. If you don't mind, so how much... Because I want to talk a little bit, too, about some of your single- family in a minute here. What was total budget that you invested in the property? Not to mention all the other stuff that you had to deal with, which is unbelievable. And everybody now knows some of the adversity. Some of the adversity that you went through.

Kristy Moore: Some.

Nate Trunfio: Because there's more to this story, as I know.

Kristy Moore: Oh yeah, there's way more. I mean, it was a daily thing. We got to the point where we just started laughing about it, because you couldn't make the stuff up. So we invested about 647, 000 into the place. Renovated all the units.

Nate Trunfio: How many units did you turn total, or renovate?

Kristy Moore: I'm sorry?

Nate Trunfio: How many units total did you renovate?

Kristy Moore: So we renovated 74 units.

Nate Trunfio: Crazy. Wow.

Kristy Moore: And that was including and replacing all the HVACs, and that was also including the building that burned down. Like I said, we were underinsured, because we were insured for actual cash value versus replacement costs, which is a very expensive lesson, by the way. Because we bought it so cheap. I mean, we bought it for$ 2 million.

Nate Trunfio: In full cycle, this acquisition to disposition was how long? Because all this craziness happened in what period of time? Obviously COVID was somewhere in the parts of it.

Kristy Moore: So we bought it in September of 2019, and then I sold it December 2nd, 2021. I bought it for a little over 2 million, and I sold it for 3. 65 without an agent. I sold it to a direct buyer, and he sold it six months later, by the way.

Nate Trunfio: Man. Well, it's just impressive, all of that. And realistically, it's hard for anybody to acquire, reposition, and disposition an asset of that size with that many units that you had to go through, renovate, turn and all of that, and go through the dispo process, along with the story, I'm just going to call it, along the way, is more than more than impressive. And anybody listening that's looking at doing their first multifamily, or everybody has a story about their first date or acquisition, single- family and multifamily, please reach out as you have something if you think it even comes close to this one. But what would you say, then, and if you look backwards, what was some of the big changes? Because as you've articulated, I want to get into it a little bit more. You're a very experienced single- family flipper and operator, not to mention you dabble in a little bit of real estate brokerage as well. But what were the big lessons, or lessons you tell the listeners, in transitioning from single- family to multifamily, assuming that they don't have to deal with any gang police collusion or anything like that?

Kristy Moore: Well, I think that is important, though. I think if I would've done things differently as far as finding out what was really happening with that property, I would have talked to people at the local hardware store. Those guys knew everything. And then I would have talked to the people at the local convenience stores, because that's where a lot of people gather. If you're having those types of problems, they're generally gathering around those types of places. Because also, I mean, I did talk to a lot of the residents, but again, they're all involved. I mean, everybody that I talked to was involved in the whole situation, and they see me, this little girl coming in and they're like, " Oh yeah, we want her to run this place because we're going to run all over her." I mean, they didn't know what they were dealing with. They had no idea what was going on. So I mean, even the guys at the hardware store were like, " Oh, look at these girls from the north coming and taking over and cleaning it up." We're like, " Yeah," because my mom's little like me. So I think at first people thought that they would be able to continue and just take advantage of us. And then my mom's hardcore. I mean, she's an OG. There's nothing that can hold her down. Like I said, I carried 14 weapons. She never carried anything. She was like, "What? I'm not afraid of these people. I don't care."

Nate Trunfio: I wonder where you get it from.

Kristy Moore: I think it changed us both. I mean, both of us came out of that experience very different people, very strong, very confident. There's nothing that you can throw my way. There's nothing that keeps me up at night anymore, because once you've been through the worst of it, you know you can handle anything. So I would definitely be a lot more... Going outside, but not too far outside the neighborhood to really understand what was going on.

Nate Trunfio: How much did your single- family experience relate to being able to navigate through that? I mean, I'm interested in your perspective there.

Kristy Moore: I think the only thing that translated... Because with single- family, you're dealing with one property, one tenant. It's an isolated situation. Whereas multifamily, you're dealing with a community and a mindset, and it's a lot harder... You can fix up a single- family and transform it. Even if you fix up a multifamily, how are you transforming the community, right? The mindset, the people. The guy that bought that property from me, the reason why he sold it six months later is because he's like, " Look, I can't get anything done in this community. I'm not going to change the government. I'm not going to change the town. I can change the property, but I can't change the community." And don't get me wrong. I mean, people were very sad when we left. They were very sad when we sold. The women loved us. I mean, by the time we left, birds were chirping. It was very quiet. It was a very different place than how we started. But I will say the day that we sold it, the gang members came on the property that night.

Nate Trunfio: Oh, man.

Kristy Moore: They assaulted somebody on the property that night.

Nate Trunfio: That's unbelievable.

Kristy Moore: So that's a whole other thing. So that was a big realization, was like, if I can't change this community, then my work, my outcome, is very limited in what I can do here and what kind of difference I can make.

Nate Trunfio: Which is tied to your" Why", and that's just hugely important. And so I want to, real quick, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I want to ask just a couple of more vanity questions and go back into the last bigger two topics. So just to put things in perspective of the other stuff that you do, you run a brokerage?

Kristy Moore: Mm- hmm.

Nate Trunfio: How many agents?

Kristy Moore: It's a small team. So we have seven people.

Nate Trunfio: And about how many transactions?

Kristy Moore: About a hundred a year. A hundred to 150 depending on the year.

Nate Trunfio: Plug the team name.

Kristy Moore: Oh, it's the Kristy Moore team. I mean, come on.

Nate Trunfio: Of course it is. Love it. Any vanity metrics on properties you flipped? Year, total dollar amount, any just vanity metrics that you can tout here? Just put it in perspective with your experience level there.

Kristy Moore: Yeah, I mean... That side, I wouldn't say that I'm trying to scale either the brokerage or the flipping business. And the reason is because of what we talked about earlier. It's highly taxed, and it's not worth much. When you go to sell your brokerage, it's worth what is in the bank. And you go to sell your multifamily, I mean, you raise your rents a thousand dollars a month, you've increased your property value by $120,000. It's very different. A lot less effort. I mean, with the exception of what I had to deal with with that first property. But in general, it's a lot less effort. And you're also building on residuals, whereas transactions, in brokerage or flip land, you're constantly starting over. You make a profit and you give half of it to the government, and then you're starting over every month. So that has never been my focus. It's just something I thoroughly enjoy, and I've been in real estate broker land for a long time, so I have tons of past clients. So really it's just whatever comes our way. We don't lead- generate or anything like that. But I will say Our average profit per deal in the flipping business is $68,000. We'll do 15 to 20 a year. And then my main focus, as far as long-term, and also if I had to shut everything down, I would not shut down, obviously, the multifamily, because it's been so great for me. And like I said, I mean, you're raising rents 50 to a hundred bucks a unit. You own a hundred units. I mean, you're increasing your property value. It doesn't matter. In single-family, you're dealing with the market and emotions and homeowners. That's a different world, and the market is predicated on that. Whereas in multifamily, the market is predicated on your income and how well you operate, which is awesome, right? Because if you're a really good operator, if you're great at taking care of the tenants and getting things done in a timely fashion and on a nice budget, then you can drastically increase the property value without. I mean, I made close to a million dollars on some gang-infested property. And I don't want to be like, "Oh, I'm so amazing."

Nate Trunfio: Previously gang-infested property.

Kristy Moore: But it was still just a numbers game. So I'm really good at numbers. To me, it just makes sense to focus more on that, because not only long- term, I'll be able to retire, but also it's nice to... Getting into multifamily and having money come in every month after being in the brokerage and flipping business where you're constantly like, " Where's the next deal? What's happening?" Worrying about that cashflow aspect of things, it's kind of nice to wake up and know that money is just being directly deposited into your bank account. You know?

Nate Trunfio: So I want to ask first, and we talked about this recently... So I want to ask, and if you can hit this one quickly, because I want to move to the last big topic. You have a lot of superpowers, but if you were to say in one word what your superpower is, what would it be? And give me a quick" Why".

Kristy Moore: Well, it'd definitely be paranoia. I mean, even with Dillon, I did have a strong amount of paranoia around that property, and I still unfortunately got into that situation, which I feel like obviously happened for a reason. But I am constantly looking at all of the things that can go wrong. I originally went to school for industrial engineering, and that's what you're supposed to do, right? You're trying to figure out all the way that things can go wrong and be efficient and that kind of stuff. And that is how my brain is wired, mainly because it reduces my anxiety. Like knowing, " Okay, I can deal with all these things that can go wrong, and I can sleep at night because I know that I can handle any of these things." So any deal that I get into, whether it's flipping, whether it's actually even dealing with clients in the brokerage, I'm just looking at, " What are all the things that can go wrong?" And sometimes you have to say no, if the downside is too great. I think a lot of people are always looking at the optimism, always looking at the upside and what they can make, and they get all starry- eyed and not think of all the things that can go wrong. And then that's how they lose money. Because if your downside's not protected, then you're ripe for losing money. But if you protect your downside, even if the worst happens, you're still going to be okay. And if you're better than the worst happening, then great, you're going to do really well. And even with Dillon, I did go through all of those worst- case scenarios. Again, I didn't predict a building burning down and all that stuff, but that's why I came out okay, because numbers wise, despite everything else, I knew that I could really screw this up and still be okay. And that's what happened.

Nate Trunfio: Yeah, I mean, I think that's such an important lesson, and it's such a unique superpower when you hear the word" paranoia," but I think you did such a phenomenal job articulating why. And that's real estate investing in almost every... Well, in every single asset class, I'll go as far as saying that. And certainly you're one to know about that. I think the last topic I want to hit here is there's not that many female real estate investor operators out there. So can you give some perspective? Because I would unequivocally say you're one of the best operators, whether female, male or martian, or whatever else that I know.

Kristy Moore: I am a martian.

Nate Trunfio: But what's that like, operating at your level as a female in what seems to be a more male- dominated world?

Kristy Moore: There's so much I have to say about this. I don't even know if we have time. So this is probably going to be different than what people would expect I'm about to say. But most of my team is female. And having worked with lots of women and having worked with lots of men and women and hired a lot of people and fired a lot of people and all of the things, I think that the biggest challenge for women is the biological issue that we all have, which is, you only have a certain amount of time to have a family. And I don't care what anybody says. Yeah, there's IVF, there's all this stuff, but at the end of the day, you have to be committed to what you're doing a hundred percent. And you can only be committed to certain things. And I do believe... I mean, look, even though my parents were on welfare, my mom was a stay- at- home mom until we went to school. And I never had my own children. And not for lack of trying or anything, but I knew that if I did that, my business was going to be the thing that I was going to have to sacrifice. Anything that you are a hundred percent committed to, there's sacrifices. And I think we actually have it backwards as a society. I think that as independent women we're taught, " Go and build your career and then have a family." And I actually think that it's backwards. I think that we probably shouldn't be expecting to have children later on in life. I mean, after 35, it's a geriatric pregnancy. It's a legitimate thing that you put yourself at risk, you put your child at risk by being an older woman and getting pregnant. My parents had us really young. I wouldn't even exist if my mom waited to have children. She had endometriosis so bad. So I think that you've got to choose. Again, I have a lot of women on my team. A lot of them are part- time, and they're awesome, but they only have a limited amount of time. And if you're starting a business and you're trying to build something, it requires all of your attention and all of your time. And most men, they have the wife at home dealing with the household, dealing with the kids, dealing with those things. They have that support. And as a woman, if you're going to choose to have a career where you have to work 10, 12 hours a day, then somebody else is raising your kids, if you're having children. So I think if we had kids earlier and then started our careers later, actually, it would be a better thing for us as women. This is coming from my own experience. But society is kind of like, " Oh, you have to have it all." And we all realize we can't. A lot of women in my company are like, " Look, I can't work all the time. My kids are my priority." And that's fine. So I do think that that's why. And maybe things will change, but I mean, I think that's why there's not a lot of women in the space, because we have to choose. If we have a family, we want to be there for the kids, that's the priority. And there's nothing wrong with that. It is also still an old man network. I mean, the owners I deal with are old men. The brokers I work with are old men, and they still view... Their worldview of women, which again, is not wrong, because I just feel like we're a product of our environment and our programming. They've just been programmed differently. They were programmed at a different time. So I don't fault them for that. I'm not mad at it. It just is what it is. But I have had to operate differently working with, trying to buy properties from these brokers and owners, and how to handle them because of how they treat me, which, fair or unfair? I don't care. Again, I just see it for how it is.

Nate Trunfio: Can you give an example or two of that, if you don't mind? I don't mean to interrupt you.

Kristy Moore: Oh, yeah. Well, the first commercial property I bought, like I said, was my office building. And the guy that I bought it from was a retiring old white man attorney, and he called his wife his secretary. Didn't even introduce her as his wife. And when I did the walkthrough, he wouldn't look me in the eye. He wouldn't answer my direct questions. He would dismiss me when I would ask about things that were obvious, like the roof leaking and things like that. There's a giant watermark on the roof. It's obvious the roof is leaking, and he'd just be like, " Oh, honey," whatever. So I ended up bringing literally a homeless guy with me to the walkthrough just to have a dude there. And I would ask the questions and he would answer him. And my business banker was a man. And when I went to closing, I was sitting directly across from him, and he wouldn't even look at me. He was talking to my business banker, who was next to me. And I actually started BABS Development at that time, because I did buy, I ended up getting the property under contract. I used, if you've seen the Barbie movie, you know how Barbieland, you know how they get it back from Kendom? That's exactly how I negotiated that deal. I was just kind of like, " Oh my God, please help me. I don't know what I'm doing. Will you help me? Oh, I'm so confused." I mean, literally, that's how I did that deal. And I started BABS Development, because it stands for Badass Bitches, by the way. Because I just wanted to see him sign paperwork with BABS on there. I mean, it was so petty, but it's just the truth.

Nate Trunfio: I think it's awesome.

Kristy Moore: And that was after I had three other commercial brokers tell me I couldn't find what I wanted, I couldn't get what I wanted for the price that I wanted. They dismissed me, and they called me" sweetie" and" honey" and everything else, and I was just like, "You know what? I'm doing this on my own." Obviously this isn't working out. So that was eight years ago, and still to this day, I mean, depending on who I'm dealing with, I have to operate the same way. I've had my assistant on the phone with me while I'm negotiating. Actually, the deal I bought in Ocala, she was on the phone with me, and this guy was being so condescending. " Well, if you knew about the..." And I was just like, " Oh, really? Okay, teach me. Will you help me?" And she's like, " I can't believe that you didn't just go off on that guy. Why didn't you just... How could you let him treat you like that?" And I was like, " Girl, what would that do? How is that going to help me get this deal?" At the end of the day, I want the deal. And so acting in a way that A, they expect, and B, makes me look like a B is not going to get me the deal. If I want a good deal. I have to play into their mindset. Not my mindset, but their mindset. And that's just how it is. Again, I don't see it as bad or good. I just see it for what it is. And I just recently got a property under contract that, it was a brother and sister, and dealing with the brother, I was like, " Man, I would've got a much better deal if I dealt with the brother, but the sister was hardcore." But it was also really refreshing dealing with her. She was inspiring. She's 74 years old, right? I don't remember if I answered your question or not.

Nate Trunfio: No, no, you did. And I want to leave listeners with this. I mean, I think it's just really educating for me, because unfortunately, I know nothing about being a female.

Kristy Moore: Well, I appreciate you acknowledging that.

Nate Trunfio: Hey, it's just of the nature of my environment too. And that's why I'm just so eager to ask you. These aren't even all the questions, but maybe we'll come back to it another time. Just for those that have committed to this craft, to this industry, to this way of life, that you have to deal with the unexpected and the adversity and being demeaned by men and women alike, what advice do you have to those that are already committed to continue to thrive and persevere as you do? I'm interested for you to leave us with that.

Kristy Moore: Well, I think that's the number one thing. I think it's being committed. I think a lot of people, though, don't understand what commitment means. I mean, I think a lot of people say they're committed, but their actions don't correspond with that. So if you are truly committed, then commitment is... There is no maybe, it's yes or no. There is no try, it's do or do not. And that's what you have to... When you're going through adversity. You have to see, " Am I still committed to this vision that I have? Am I still committed to this mission?" Because if you're not, you are going to get creamed. Like I said, there is no being wishy- washy. You either do or do not. Even with that property in Dillon, there were plenty of times I wanted to quit, and a lot of people tell me, " I would've quit. I would not have kept going." And what kept me going is that I was so committed to the end result. I was so committed to these women. I was so committed to this community, and it didn't matter. When you're committed, it doesn't matter what you have to go through, you will do anything. And that's really the test of your commitment. And also, when you make a commitment, you're immediately tested, because the universe wants to see if you are really committed. So it's going to test you immediately. You say, " Oh, I want to lose weight," or" I want to get in shape," or" I want to do whatever." You're immediately going to be tested. " Are you really going to do this?" Because again, it's do or do not. You're either doing the deed every day or the deal every day, or the task that you need to accomplish every day or you're not. So that's really the main thing, is actually be committed. If you are committed, you've got to 100% not waver on that decision.

Nate Trunfio: Well, I don't know if we could find a better way to end with some phenomenal advice, but that's not only motivational, but inspirational. And you've been nothing but exactly that throughout all the journey that I've seen you, and I know the continued journey of success that you're going to continue to be on and changing the world, one property, one unit at a time. Thank you so much for just sharing yourself, being so vulnerable about it as well, but also being so committed to it throughout. So just appreciate you, Kristy, and I've learned a lot here in this episode, and I know everybody else listening in it has too. So thank you so much for being a part of the Real Estate of Things.

Kristy Moore: Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Nate Trunfio: Thanks again to our guest, Kristy Moore. Man, I cannot say thank you enough for everything that you just dropped in all the lessons that I learned, and I know our listeners as well. As you listen, make sure you subscribe on your favorite platform as we continue to drop fresh episodes on Tuesdays, and check all things out on our website for the Real Estate of Things podcast at www. realestateofthings. co. More to come next time.